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　　理性對話凝共識，文明互鑒共發(fā)展。為深化中西文明交流，更好推動中華文化的國際傳播，中國孔子網(wǎng)策劃推出“漢學中西問”專欄，旨在通過對話知名漢學家，聆聽中西文化聲音，感受文明交流互鑒的和諧共融。本期采訪嘉賓為意大利羅馬第二大學院士、首批來山東駐研的國際漢學家Riccardo Pozzo（里卡多·波佐）。

　　Q: Professor Pozzo, how did you first come into contact with Chinese culture and gradually develop a strong interest in it, leading you to delve deeper into your research? Did any specific event play a critical role in this process?

　　問：波佐教授，您是如何第一次接觸到中國文化并逐漸對其產(chǎn)生濃厚興趣，進而深入研究的？是否有任何特定事件在這一過程中發(fā)揮了關鍵作用？

　　ANS:As a matter of fact, I can say I was born as a member of Cultural China, which according to TuWeiming is the expression that designates the third sphere of impact of Chinese thought and tradition beyond mainland China and the huaqiaodiaspora: namely the sphere of those persons who had a significant experience with Chinese culture at any point of their lives. In my case, as I was hinting, it happened very soon, for I was raised by my grandfather who had had on his own a significant experience with Chinese culture,having spent a term as naval attaché at the Italian Legation in the Peking Legation Quarter from 1925 to 1929 and continued serving as navy officer on vessels between Shanghai, Guangzhou, Singapore and Tokyo until 1933. My childhood was full of grandfather’s stories about China, full also of the Chinese artworks that are still in the house.

　　答：事實上，我可以說我生來就是文化中國人，根據(jù)杜維明教授的說法，文化中國是指除了中國大陸和華僑華人以外，中國思想傳統(tǒng)產(chǎn)生影響的第三個領域：即那些在生活中的任何時刻對中國文化發(fā)生深刻體驗的人。就我而言，正如我所暗示的，這樣的體驗很早就發(fā)生了，因為我是由祖父撫養(yǎng)長大，他本人對中國文化有過豐富的體驗，曾于1925年至1929年期間在意大利駐北京公使館擔任海軍武官，并隨后在輪船上擔任海軍軍官，往返于上海、廣州、新加坡和東京之間，直到1933年。我的童年充滿了祖父講的中國故事，家中也至今充滿各種中國藝術作品。

　　Q: What specific viewpoints or concepts of Chinese culture have particularly attracted you in your research process? How have these areas of interest influenced your academic research methods and directions?

　　問：在您的研究過程中，中國文化的哪些具體觀點或概念特別吸引你？這些興趣領域是如何影響您的學術研究方法和方向的？

　　ANS:The viewpoint that has attracted me most was that of spiritual humanism, which I become familiar with upon meeting in 2013 at Peking University, my distinguished colleague Tu Weiming, with whom I share membership in the Institut International de Philosophie, and who is undoubtedly the most important living Neo-confucian philosopher and the champion of China’s spiritual humanism.

　　“Human beings can enlarge the Way, the Way cannot enlarge human beings” (人能弘道，非道弘人, Analects15:28). Professor Tu has noted that the meaning of this statement by Confucius is quite different from the Greek idea that the human being is the measure of all things, and that he/she has the power to change the natural course of action. In other words, the form of human life envisioned by Confucius is not anthropocentric (人類中心主義), as it was the case for the Greek sophists and the Renaissance humanists. Rather, it is anthropocosmic (天人合一的) in the sense that there is implicit mutuality, constant communication, and dynamic interaction between the anthropological world and the cosmic order (Tu Weiming, The Global Significance of Concrete Humanity: Essays on the Confucian Discourse in Cultural China. New Delhi: New Delhi Centre for Studies in Civilizations, 2010, 187).

　　答：最吸引我的觀點是精神人文主義，我于2013年在北京大學與我的杰出同事杜維明會面時就了解了這一點，杜維明和我同為國際哲學學院的成員，他無疑是當世最重要的新儒家哲學家和中國精神人文主義的衛(wèi)士。

　　“人能弘道，非道弘人”（《論語》15章28節(jié)）。杜教授指出，孔子這句話的含義與希臘哲學的觀點截然不同，后者認為人是萬物的尺度，有能力改變自然的行為過程。換句話說，孔子所設想的人類生活形式并不像希臘詭辯家和文藝復興時期的人文主義者所設想的是人類中心主義的，而是天人合一的，因為人類世界和宇宙秩序之間存在著隱含的相互關系、不斷的交流和動態(tài)的互動（杜維明，《具體之仁的全球意義：中國文化中的儒家話語論文集》。新德里：新德里文明研究中心，2010，187）。

　　Q: You have conducted in-depth research on Tu Weiming’s“spiritual humanism.” How do you view Professor Tu Weiming’s concept of "spiritual humanism"? How can “spiritual humanism” promote cultural exchange and dialogue between East and West in the context of globalization?

　　問：您對杜維明的“精神人文主義”進行了深入的研究。您如何看待杜教授的“精神人文主義”概念？“精神人文主義”如何在全球化背景下促進東西方文化交流與對話？

　　ANS:As Professor Tu says, the Confucian human agent, endowed with rich inner resources for self-transformation, is a servant, partner, and co-creator of Heaven, the Way. As a servant, the mandate of Heaven works through the human agent for its own realization. We know that Confucius at 40 had no more doubts and at 50 he knew the mandate of the heavens (天命) (Analects 4.1).As a partner, the human agent, by self-cultivation, transmits the culture wished for by Heaven. As a co-creator, the human agent joins Heaven in a collaborative enterprise to bring to completion the cosmic process. The human agent obeys the rules and innovates within the limits of the universe. This is what defines spiritual humanism in the Chinese tradition(Tu Weiming 2010, 188).

　　As regards the East-West dialogue, I seea substantial convergence between Chinese tiandi(天地) and Teilhard de Chardin’s understanding of the interconnectedness of biosphere, noosphere and the human being. It is not by change that the last line of Teilhard’s Le phénomène humain(Paris: Seuil, 1955) is dated “Peking June 1938-June 1940,” for Teilhard had been living in Peking from 1938 to 1946. The universe (天下) is permeated by a double cosmic energy: the tangential energy (切線能) that connects an element with other elements of the same order, and the radial energy (軸心能) that pushes an element towards contexts of higher complexity. The French twentieth-century philosopher Pierre Teilhard de Chardin interpreted the dichotomy of yinyang(陰陽), with tian(天), the noosphere (精神圈)that expresses the tangential energy in a descending order to the myriad things, anddi(地), the biosphere (生物圈) that pushes life radially towards higher levels of complexity.

　　答：正如杜教授所說，儒家的人被賦予自我轉化的豐富內在資源，是天即道的服務者、參與者和共同締造者。作為仆人，天命通過人來實現(xiàn)自身。我們知道，孔子四十而不惑，五十而知天命（《論語》4章1節(jié)）。作為合作伙伴，人通過自我修養(yǎng)，傳承上天所愿的文化。作為共同創(chuàng)造者，人加入了天的協(xié)作事業(yè)，以完成宇宙過程。人遵守規(guī)則，在宇宙的范圍內進行創(chuàng)新，這就是中國傳統(tǒng)中的精神人文主義（杜維明2010，188）。

　　關于東西方對話，我發(fā)現(xiàn)中國人的天地概念，與哲學家德日進對生物圈、精神圈和人類相互聯(lián)系的理解，二者之間發(fā)生了深刻的融合。德日進的《人類現(xiàn)象》（巴黎：瑟伊出版社，1955）的最后一行標注日期為“1938年6月-1940年6月，北京”，這絕非偶然，并不僅是因為德日進于1938年至1946年期間在北京住過。宇宙（天下）充滿了雙重的宇宙能量：切線能，把同種類的元素相互聯(lián)系在一起；軸心能，將元素推向更高更復雜的層次。二十世紀的法國哲學家德日進解釋了陰陽二分法，認為天，即精神圈，以降序方式向萬物表現(xiàn)出切線能量，地，即生物圈，以軸心能量將生命推向更高的復雜層次。

　　Q: How can we balance ethical differences between different cultural backgrounds in the process of constructing a global ethics?

　　問：在構建全球倫理的過程中，我們如何平衡不同文化背景之間的倫理差異？

　　ANS：Global ethics considers globalization in various forms of social activity including economic, political and cultural life. Issues of globalization ask for new approaches to address conflicts that arise when different cultural norms and practices collide (Kwasi Wiredu, “On the Idea of a Global Ethics.” Journal of Global Ethics 1 [2006]: 45-51). Globalization asks philosophy for an innovative narrative of inclusion and reflection. Today we need to craft a new code of global ethics to promote peace and global cooperation in the 21st century. To address the challenges of weak leadership and inefficiency within multilateral systems we need to find out philosophical foundations for ethical governance thatrespect harmony in diversity.

　　答：全球倫理學從經(jīng)濟、政治和文化生活等各種形式的社會活動來思考全球化。全球化中的問題要求采取新的方法來解決不同文化規(guī)范和實踐碰撞時出現(xiàn)的沖突（Kwasi Wiredu，“關于全球倫理的理念”?！度騻惱韺W期刊》1[2006]:45-51）。全球化要求哲學對包容和反思進行創(chuàng)新敘事。今天，我們需要制定一套新的全球道德準則，以促進21世紀的和平與全球合作。為了應對多邊體系內領導力薄弱和效率低下的挑戰(zhàn)，我們需要找到重視和而不同的倫理治理方式的哲學基礎。

　　Q: What unique perspectives or solutions can Confucianism provide for addressing ethical and governance issues in modern society?

　　問：儒家思想可以為現(xiàn)代社會的倫理和治理問題提供哪些獨特的視角或解決方案？

　　ANS:It is the human being that connects with the noosphere, which surrounds the biosphere. The emergence of human consciousness, which Chinese philosophers identify in the Heart (xin 心), is bound to bring about a total unification of our planet.Chinese philosophers understand the cosmos as Heaven-Earth (tiandi天地), where Heaven (tian 天) is the spirit, the dominator, the creator, the sustainer, the revealer, and the judge; while Earth is the globe that clothes itself with a brain.Hence, one might argue then, that Chinese Heaven (tian 天) is the same as what we understand today as noosphere. Both function asan organized cloth across the planet. Both interact with the realm of the possibilityin human affairs.

　　答：正是人類與包圍生物圈的精神圈產(chǎn)生連接。中國哲學家所認同的心，即人類意識的出現(xiàn)，必將帶來我們這個星球的完全統(tǒng)一。中國哲學家把宇宙理解為天地，其中天是精神，是統(tǒng)治者、創(chuàng)生者、載行者、啟示者和審判者；而地球是一個包裹于頭腦中的地球。因此，有人可能會說，中國的天與我們今天所理解的“精神圈”是一樣的，兩者都是包裹地球的經(jīng)緯交織的布，兩者都與人類事務中的可能性領域發(fā)生相互作用。

　　Q:What are the main challenges facing current cultural exchanges between China and the West, including cultural differences, political factors, economic imbalances, and other aspects? How do you think these challenges should be addressed to promote deeper and broader cultural exchanges between China and the West?

　　問：當前中西文化交流面臨的主要挑戰(zhàn)是什么，包括文化差異、政治因素、經(jīng)濟不平衡等方面？您認為應該如何應對這些挑戰(zhàn)，以促進中國和西方之間更深入、更廣泛的文化交流？

　　ANS:Today, the notions of biosphere and noosphere contribute to ongoing debates concerning the effects of emerging technologies. They help tackling key challenges such as the green and digital transitions. Especially in China, where the twin transitions are taking place right now in compliance with Chinese thought and culture.The human being makes the Earth converge into Heaven, the total noosphere. This has become clear since technology has exploited radio-waves and is now constructing artificial intelligence, which is part of the noosphere, for it works on the sum of all thought contents that are in Heaven and that humanity has been disclosing in time.

　　In an anthropocosmic tiandi(天地) harmony (和) is achieved when the human being takes careof the biosphere, which is the worldwide sum of all ecosystems, the environment. This is the green transition.The noosphere, the thought that is spread over theInternet, ought to reach humans in all corners of the world at the same time in a healthy and sustainable way. This is the digital transition.

　　However, we know well that artificial intelligence must be confronted with human dignity. Machines that think on their own are provoking a crisis of freedom that is engendering new forms of slavery, such as the human inability of asserting or at least defending one’s freedom of attention. Also, it is not acceptable that a machine decides when to take the life of a human being.

　　答：今天，生物圈和精神圈的概念為當前有關新興技術之影響的辯論做出貢獻，有助于應對綠色轉型和數(shù)字化轉型等關鍵的挑戰(zhàn)。特別是在中國，這兩種轉型正在按照中國式思維和文化上演。人類正把地聚合為天，而天則完全屬于精神圈的范疇。這一點已經(jīng)變得很清楚，因為技術已經(jīng)利用了無線電波，正在構建人工智能，后者也是精神圈的一部分，因為它作用于人類一直在揭示的天的所有思想內容的總和。

　　在天人合一的天地概念中，和諧是當人類關懷生物圈時才產(chǎn)生，生物圈即全球所有生態(tài)系統(tǒng)和環(huán)境的總和。這就是綠色轉型。精神圈，這一在互聯(lián)網(wǎng)上廣泛傳播的思想，也應該以健康和可持續(xù)的方式同時觸及世界各個角落的人類。這就是數(shù)字化轉型。

　　然而，我們很清楚，人工智能必須直面人類尊嚴。獨立思考的機器正在引發(fā)一場自由危機，這場危機正在催生新的奴役方式，比如人類無法主張甚至捍衛(wèi)自己的注意力自由。此外，讓機器來決定什么時候拿走人的生命也是不可接受的。

　　Q:In today’s increasingly globalized world, how do you view the status and role of Chinese culture in international exchanges? What are your new research directions or plans in the field of Chinese culture research?

　　問：在當今日益全球化的世界中，您如何看待中國文化在國際交流中的地位和作用？您在中國文化研究領域有哪些新的研究方向或計劃？

　　ANS:The rapid expansion of the noosphere requires new realms of spiritual humanism.On July 1st, the United Nations Generally Assembly adopted China’s proposal to enhance cooperation on capacity building for artificial intelligence.This solution emphasizes artificial intelligence development should be “human-oriented, promote good, and benefit humanity”. The human being has only one Earth, and he/she has only one Heaven. Hence, the human being has only one intelligence.Artificial intelligence should benefit humanity. Artificial intelligence belongs to the noosphere. Hence, one might think that artificial intelligence has a spiritual nature.

　　答：精神圈的迅速擴張要求產(chǎn)生精神人文主義的新領域。7月1日，聯(lián)合國大會通過了中國關于加強人工智能能力建設國際合作的提議。該方案強調人工智能發(fā)展應“以人為本，促進善，造福人類”。人類只有一個地球，只有一個天堂。因此，人類只有一種智能，人工智能應該造福人類。人工智能屬于心靈圈的范疇，因此，也可以認為人工智能具有一種精神性質。